I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue

Yep.  $52 million.  Wow.

I want to be clear here.  A good number of Senator Clinton's top donors have been helping, and I appreciate what they're doing.  We have a race to win and they're doing their part.  Also, nobody is forced to give money and if somebody really doesn't want to give to Senator Obama's campaign I completely respect that.  I ain't kidding, either.  Donations are personal, and they signify a strong belief in a candidate or his/her views.

All that being said, I hope Hillary's Bundlers Get a Clue!

Some of them have been holding back donations because they want to hurt Senator Obama, or to prove that he can't raise money without them.  Well, he absolutely can raise good money without them.  Duh!  They will not torpedo this campaign through their inaction or their venom.  First off, Obama's folks are still donating.  Secondly, a lot of Hillary's people are already donating.  We're Democrats!

However, their help could be incredibly meaningful and effective.  We could see months wherein he clears $75 million or more if the Hillraisers support him en masse.  This could help downticket Democrats all over the place.

Hell, if they're really that mad at him they could give to the DNC (though perhaps that's a non-starter as well).

Gang, if you want a future for the Democratic Party this is the year to support it.  We are going to win.  How big of a win depends on all of us.

To Hillary Clinton supporters generally:  We want your help.  We honor your candidate, and I'll admit I was overly harsh at times (though I am still critical of her and will so remain) and I apologize if I was overzealous.  We want mostly the same things from our government.  Let's do this together, and secure those policy goals!

[Edit]I donated to Senator Clinton's campaign the day after she dropped out. I already got a clue myself.



Display:


Tips? (1.78 / 14)

For Clues?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:25:39 AM EST

Re: Tips? (1.44 / 9)

This is a troll diary.

If you don't need us to win then just go ahead and win.

Why are you guys in constant rehash mode?


by dtaylor2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:33:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 3)

Please explain how this is a troll diary.  Now.

If you're going to toss off insults, you'd better back 'em up.

Exactly how is this a rehash of anything?  I'm talking about today and tomorrow not yesterday.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

So are you saying you are a big donor or big bundler?

If not then this diary is not directed at you at all.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (1.25 / 4)

So are you saying you are a big donor or big bundler?

If not then this diary is not directed at you at all.

Well, why write this darn diary? I can pretty much assure that the so-called big bundlers are not waiting on your every breath and word--let alone this god-awful sale's pitch to get Hillary's supporters to SUPPORT OBAMA and YOUR erratic rants. No deal!


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (1.80 / 5)

Bull.  Nobody is being called out besides those who would actively hurt the Dem chances to win this Fall.  

If it wasn't for a bunch of dead-ender Hillary supporters, there would be no 'rehash mode.'  You bunch have a habit of keeping the topic alive by puling and whining about how you just can't support Obama...


by Lawyerish on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

Last time I checked, to rehash something means to basically to reopen some form of dialogue, which was initally closed. If that's the case, this diary was started by an extreme-Obama loyalist, you know, his words are the reason this diary has garned such a large response. So, I think the BULL does not lie with me, but rather the creator of this diary.


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:03:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

Who is extreme-Obama?  Does he pull tractors with his teeth?


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:08:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

I can't say whether Obama does, but some his supporters definitely come across as being quite crazed and even rabid.

I remember how sad it was for me to turn down an Obama representative that called me from North Carolina asking for a donation. I hate to say that I used the Obama "get-out-the-vote" effort only to vote for Hillary. Well...that's life, bud.


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

Ah, I see your problem.  Let me solve it for you:

The primary season is over.  We have a winner.  The party is no longer riven along factional lines.  We still have holdouts but it ain't anything like a going concern.

May called.  It wanted you to know it's over.  So did June, by the way.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 3)

Bull, you say?

I didn't attack Senator Clinton in any way shape or form.  I take issue with the behavior of a portion (again, not all) of her top donors.

What exactly am I rehashing by discussing a topic that has not been diaried as far as I can recall.

If you just wanna post "Clinton good, Obama bad" over and over again, knock yourself out.

Frankly, I'm not sure what "extreme-Obama loyalist" means, but if I had to guess, in practical terms, it probably comes out like:

Honest and loyal Democrat who wants to win.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 2)

Dude let it go.

Seriously this constant rehash is hurting your candidate.

You would be wise to not use any word or subject that revolves around Hillary.

You hate her we know you do and the constant rehash is salt in wounds.

Which is my bet on why you do it.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:15:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 2)

I do not hate Senator Clinton.  This diary is not about Senator Clinton.  This diary is about some of her most prominent supporters.

Please direct your criticisms to the actual purpose of the diary, not the purpose you'd prefer it have been about.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 2)

I never thought I'd see you get called "rabid".  The opening TRs and the picking of fights seems to be some new form of running interference in the diaries.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 3)

They're baiting me, whether they know it or not.

I could write anything at all, but so long as it included the words "Clinton" and "Obama" in it, the same six or so people would come in to crap all over the damned place.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 2)

The Diary is something about how Hillary faithful handlers need to bow and do your bidding.

Seriously your side won.  Unity is YOUR responsibility.  Why are you the instigator?

If people are needling you just post something like

"I am glad Obama will be our nominee"

Simple factual no argument and should provide enough rebuttal to any attack that you won't feel trampled.

There were several other diaries on this topic that I didn't comment on because they were the equivalent of that.

Factual with no gloating or blackmail etc.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 3)

Quoted from the diary:

"I want to be clear here.  A good number of Senator Clinton's top donors have been helping, and I appreciate what they're doing.  We have a race to win and they're doing their part.  Also, nobody is forced to give money and if somebody really doesn't want to give to Senator Obama's campaign I completely respect that.  I ain't kidding, either.  Donations are personal, and they signify a strong belief in a candidate or his/her views."

Care to retract your inaccurate assertion?  Also, where did I "gloat" and where did I "blackmail" anybody?  If you're going to attack my diary, please actually back up your attacks with citations and examples.  Otherwise you're just making shit up.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:28:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

"Unity is YOUR responsibility."

And we have pretty much accomplished that, as evidenced by polling numbers and $$$ numbers.

So you PUMAs can continue to gloat in the corner and act like the Democratic Party owes you something.

The rest of us will be working for a Democratic Victory in November.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:19:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

What a bunch of projection.  Nobody here HATES Senator Clinton; she's just irrelevant to the current conversation.

If you don't want to read about news having to do with Senator Obama, our nominee, then why do you come to this site?  For you know that is exactly what you will find, over and over again, as this is a Dem site for electing the Democrats who are running for office.

As for this

Seriously this constant rehash is hurting your candidate.

Seriously?  No, it isn't.  At all.  There is no more validity to this then the other bullshit scare scenarios Hillary supporters put forth during the primary.  Obama is currently as far in the lead as he's ever been, and TWICE as far ahead as Kerry or Bush EVER were over each other in a lot of polls; he's winning the Electoral votes race; he's winning the money race.  How is he being hurt, exactly?

You'll either vote Obama or you won't; we would like for you to, but if you won't, whatever.


by Lawyerish on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:21:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

I probably should have said arbitrary Obama loyalist. Well, as for the word "BULL," I believe you should take that up with the Obama supporter to whom I was initially responding.

If you would notice, I usually make statements that are Pro-Obama, but relatively neutral Obama.

I try to operate under the idea of "if-I-can't-help-you,I-will-not-hurt-you ." So far, I'll just let people know my thoughts and feelings on what has transpired in the democratic nomination. Then, I'll--more often than not--let you know that much of primaries decisions did not sit well with me.  


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

Taking issue with the process by which the party selects a nominee is fine.  The process is buggered.

Blaming Obama for successfully gaming the system he did not create, however, is absurd.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

Blaming Obama for successfully gaming the system he did not create, however, is absurd.

I'm not blaming Obama from gaming the system. As a matter of fact, if the media would have stayed with their pre-2008 fairness clause, instead of the debauched ala FOX NEWS (1992-2006) treatment of Hillary, I would have found it much more acceptable and disheartening to support Obama--but no...that didn't happen.


by Check077 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

So, again, I'm not blaming Obama for gaming the system. It's expected in politics and that means he's no savior of anybody--just another opportunist politician, that's all.

It's okay to be an opportunist--we are all opportunist to one extent or another. If I apply for a job that I believed offered more to my life in some way, I'll become an opportunist and seize that momment. But Obama certainly should not expect everyone to turn a blind eye to how he seized his opportunity. I plainly disagree with how he seized this opportunity, with the media sharing a bigger part of the blame. Thanks to MSNBC and CNN anti-Hillary or pro-Obama news coverage I stay away from the television completely. I absolutely do not watch it anymore.


by Check077 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:23:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tipped to offset the abuse of TRs (2.00 / 3)

I don't think the diary accomplishes much, so its not getting a rec, but its certainly not trollish. I see nothing but pumas TRing this. A call to action for democrats to support the democratic nominee is not a troll diary, whether or not it offends your delicate sensibilities.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:15:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipped to offset the abuse of TRs (none / 0)

I don't think the diary accomplishes much, so its not getting a rec, but its certainly not trollish. I see nothing but pumas TRing this. A call to action for democrats to support the democratic nominee is not a troll diary, whether or not it offends your delicate sensibilities.

In this case, the messenger is distracting from the message.

Imagine that George W. Bush wanted to speak at the Democratic National Convention, even if he wanted to speak out about Global Warming and Oil Companies immorality. Bush is perceived as a gret unifier, and ReapBot has indicated that his past is considerably divisive as well.


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipped to offset the abuse of TRs (none / 0)

Exactly where have I done so?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 6)

How about obama supporters get a clue and help a tiny bit in helping her retire her debt ,

uh ???

It goes both ways you know.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM EST

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 8)

I already got a clue.  I donated the day after she dropped out.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:34:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 2)

Not the day after she dropped out, but I donated within the week.

So let's be careful painting with too broad a brush here. Keep in mind some of her donors don't want to help retire her debt either.

I think it is admirable of her to want to try to pay it back, but since her campaign is over, I don't know what to tell her," Fye says. "As far as donating any further, I'm now shifting my support to another candidate."

Joseph Bringman of Seattle, Wash., says he was glad to have donated while Clinton was running. But he says he's not about to write another check. "Given the way the campaign was misdirected early on, when Clintons campaign coffers were full," he says. "I'm not inclined to contribute further solely for debt relief.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:04:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (1.75 / 12)

So what's more important? Retiring the debt of the multi-millionaire Clintons, or getting a Democrat in the White House this year?

Seriously, this "You scratch my back Ill scratch yours" b.s. has got to stop.

That's not the way it works, and by acting that way you only turn off anyone who may have been considering donating to Hillary to help retire her debt.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:35:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

So what's more important? Retiring the debt of the multi-millionaire Clintons ,

- Apparently a lot of her donors and supporters believe retiring the debt of the " multimillionaire dollar Clinton " is no less important .

" That's not the way it works "

- Yeah , and your own way is the one that makes the most sense to the Clinton supporters holding back.

To hell with her debt , you would fill Obama's coffers whether you like it or not .

lol.

Look both activities are important to both camps and as long as the effort on the Obama side of things is as underwhelming as the NY Times reported with all the blind quotes from supportrs I suspect some of the bundlers on the Clinton side  would not be inclined to move.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 1)

"pparently a lot of her donors and supporters believe retiring the debt of the " multimillionaire dollar Clinton " is no less important ."

If they feel that way, that's their prerogative. It's petty and counter-productive to not only Hillary's future and Barack's future, but to the future of our country.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:59:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 1)

How exactly is thinking retiring Clinton's debt or retiring her debt petty and counter productive to Hillary Clinton's future or to the country's future ?

Thats a strange thought to come up with , Clinton herself is trying to move hills and mountains to get her debt retired , so she apparently thinks it would be beneficial to her future.  


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It helps Hillary and Bill (none / 0)

as private individuals, which is fine.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:15:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It helps Hillary and Bill (none / 0)

Which dramatically affects how millions like myself vote.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Spokesman for millions (2.00 / 2)

Sweet gig if you can get it.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It helps Hillary and Bill (2.00 / 3)

Thanks for driving my point home, dtaylor2.

Its not helping retire Hillary's debt that will hamper Sen Clinton's future, it's people like you who threaten to withhold their vote  based on, what can basically be summed up as extortion.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (2.00 / 4)

You're greatest concern in this election is the private welfare of Bill and Hillary Clinton?

And they told me I was a personality cultist because Obama was my fourth choice in the primary.

snark, kinda


by BlueinColorado on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 2)

you misunderstand. some had maxed out on  =Barack, but not Hillary and some on Hillary but not Barack.  So, it would have been a trade that took nothing away from either candidate.  It's stupid not to see it that way, if Barack's donors would have, they would have known that a donation to retire her debt would net the same amount or far greater for their candidate. But, it does require good will.  And not a sense of moral superiority.  

instead yet another opportunity for unity went by and those who did in the main contribute to Hillary's debt were her most passionate supporters, and so it did nothing for unity, only solidified the sense that Hillary isn't given respect and Baracks's problems, whatever they may be, will continue to be blamed on her, as if that were the point all along, to keep Hillary's name out there to be bashed, through surrogates now that she'd clearly behind him winning.

It's silly, temper tantrum politics, and to paraphrase Barack,  I'm not against politics, just stupid politics.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (2.00 / 2)

I cannot speak for Obama's bundlers, Anna.  I wish they'd do more for her debt, frankly.

I have donated to Senator Clinton's campaign since she dropped out.  I do believe in Unity.  It is for precisely that reason that I wrote this diary.

My donation is the one thing my critics in this thread have never addressed.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:56:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (none / 0)

well, it's good, and if there were more of you, her debt wouldn't be news and wouldn't be fodder for those who want to disunite.  You're one person, how many would it have taken?  I think not so very many, so it was a lost opportunity, but not thanks to you.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

too bad there aren't less (none / 0)

people who sit around cheering for superdelegates to steal the nomination.


by taylormattd on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 05:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's the point? (none / 0)

The Clintons' future earning potential is about $1 billion. Why do they need to retire their debt???


by Lance Bryce on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 4)

Lori and Reaper, I think it's obvious, if you're a mega bucks cat, you have a pretty big ego.

Some folks in BOTH camps are going to be A-holes to the end, cause they didn't get there way or they are just sore winners OR losers.

I think we can do both, retire Senator Clinton's debt and put up enough money to help the nominee.

I have done both. When I was pissed at Obama for FBI, I gave my monthly political allowance to Senator Clinton.

Not sure about next month, will have to see.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:35:20 AM EST

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (1.80 / 5)

I am glad Obama never sent out a fundraising email to his small donors to retire Hillary's debt.

Romney just ate 45 million that he loaned it was his choice.

Hillary and Bill have 100 million dollars, more then I will EVER see, they choose to stay in and keep it going. I am sorry but I just dont feel sorry knowing that instead of 100 million, they would be down to 75 million, if they pay the debts themself and eat the loan.

he can do some more speeches, she can put out another book and boom they got it back.

Hillary's debt is never going to be a prioty to me.
and the fact she has people who make what $50,000 a year telling us that we NEED to give a person with $100 million money to pay her debts? you guys can do it thats great, but maybe once I break that 1 million dollar threshold.

but the big donors I have no problem with, if Obama wants to hit them up to help pay her debt do it. they can afford it.

whatever.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:46:48 AM EST

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 6)

Free country .

Some Clinton supporters would feel the same about giving to Obama.

That should not be surprising.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:49:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 1)

Agreed.

And, I am not worried about money or the polls.

I AM worried about the fact the press obcesses about NON-issues for Obama (magazine covers) and acts like amnesiacs for McCain gaffes (had McCain actually LOOKED at a world map since 1974?)


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:52:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Slight factual problem (2.00 / 5)

The Clintons MADE $100 million, but best estimate is that they only HAD something like $35-$50 million at the start of the season.  You know, because they paid taxes, gave to charity, bought houses and such.

While it's still more money than I've ever seen, I don't think it's accurate to keep parroting the $100,000,000 number; for the same reason I don't have my gross income from the last seven years currently in my bank account, they wouldn't have all that just shoved under their mattress.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Slight factual problem (none / 0)

fine she has 35 million, eats the 10 million to vendors and the debt and what still have 15 million,

my family hasn't even hit the $50,000 mark yet so once again, I don't think Obama should ever think about sending out a fundraising email to his small donors, I am all for the big guys steping up.

but I dont care if they were left with only (HA only) $5 million from paying their debt.

1) she CHOSE to stay in
2) Bill can easily raise more money by more dubious speaking engagments and she can penn another book

everyone has their own choices but I would never support asking people barely getting by to pay the debt of a multi-millionare

lucky for them its not up to me


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm with you (2.00 / 2)

Honestly, if I were Clinton, I would have gotten out when I realized that my fundraising wasn't covering my bills, or at least drastically scaling my operations back (including firing certain worse-than-useless pollster/advisors).

I don't really feel like it's the perrogative of small donors such as myself that can afford only about $25 in political donations per paycheck or so to help retire Clinton's debt.  If I made a lot of money, I'd probably do it just to say I did my part.

As it stands, my money is more needed directly making sure Obama wins.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Slight factual problem (none / 0)

Not really. They have about a billion in future earning potential...they have more money than they'll ever need.


by Lance Bryce on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True enough (none / 0)

That doesn't make the $100 mil figure any more accurate.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 05:12:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 4)

As a former big Hillary supporter, I completely endorse all the points that this diarist is trying to make. We need all our forces together, as Hillary has said: "We are one party, we are one nation...."


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson
by pollbuster on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:55:06 AM EST

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 1)

Some of them have been holding back donations because they want to hurt Senator Obama, or to prove that he can't raise money without them.

I think you're being a bit harsh.  Many of her bundlers need more than "I'm the Democrat, get on board or McCain will control your uterus" to start raising money for him.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:15:33 PM EST

Well, can't they just pay off her debts.... (2.00 / 1)

...so Obama's free to raise money for himself for the general?

I mean, I see all these Web sites allegedly supporting Hillary, but they're all raising money for themselves while she is allegedly in debt.

Similarly, you hear about Hillary bundlers moving to McCain instead of helping Hillary with her debts.

The "pro-Hillary" movement has turned into big business, and very little of it is actually for Hillary anymore.


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mitt Romney proved (2.00 / 1)

money alone cannot buy you an election, hence his spectacular failure in the primaries. Hillary Clinton still brings the rest of the party, 30% of which is not on the Obama bandwagon, is MORE popular with Latinos considering they VOTED for her, not just in hypothetical polls months before the election, she'd drive up turnout, she'd get women up too, as having her on the ticket would make Obama less Bradley prone. Also, If the GOP puts Romney on the ticket, which they probably will do, then they will have even more money than we have, so we WILL need Hillary's bundlers. Hillary can make Appalachia, where we actually have precedent of winning into play, because Obama's still close in Ohio and Pennsylvania, which he cannot afford to lose. Dismiss the Clintons at your own peril.


by Lakrosse on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:24:21 PM EST

Re: Mitt Romney proved (2.00 / 1)

And would you point out exactly where in this diary I dismissed the Clintons?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:39:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Appalachia is not in play (none / 0)

Don't kid yourself.  Clinton has pros but she also has some cons.  It would be nice if we could discuss them rationally without getting all bent out of shape and taking everything as a personal slight.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Latinos? (2.00 / 2)

Aren't Latinos favoring Obama at least 2 to 1?  

Anyway, if Clinton brings 30% of the party base, then most polls would suggest that she makes us lose 30% in independants, disaffected Republicans, and primary grudge-holding Democrats.  This leaves basically a wash, but the votes we gained would have been inclined towards Obama in the endgame anyway.

There's a lot to recommend Clinton, your suggestions just aren't it.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:16:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Latinos? (2.00 / 1)

Don't you realize we're not winning Latinos too much enough?

Two to one isn't good enough.  We need 126% of ALL LATINOS and we can only GET that if we listen to the PUMAs and other former Clinton supporters who won't let it go!


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh right (none / 0)

126%?  So, what you're saying is that we have to start naturalizing illegals at a highly evolved rate so they can vote for Obama?  Gotcha!


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:20:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PFFFFFFTTTTTT (1.50 / 4)

though I am still critical of her and will so remain

then don't come a beggin'.
I am sick of the disrespect shown to Sen.Clinton by many on Dailykos, and now, too often, here. You aren't winning hearts and minds.
by SoCalVet on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:39:39 PM EST

Re: PFFFFFFTTTTTT (2.00 / 3)

Would you prefer I say only nice things and essentially lie?  I can have mixed views of someone.  I'm pretty sure that's allowed.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PFFFFFFTTTTTT (none / 0)

no, I don't expect any such thing out of you.

I know what to expect when I come to these blogs, and I should have stopped myself before I did so.

Have a good day.


I am sick of the disrespect shown to Sen.Clinton by many on Dailykos, and now, too often, here. You aren't winning hearts and minds.
by SoCalVet on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PFFFFFFTTTTTT (2.00 / 2)

I donated to her campaign, pal.  I want to see her succeed within the party.

What more do you want from me?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:43:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (1.40 / 5)

No thanks! And by the way, the Obama supporters (the same ones who are now saying "We're DEMOCRATS), were the same ones back 8 months ago that were PERFECTLY willing to let NONDEMOCRATS ie, REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENTS vote in OUR primaries and caucuses because it helped their guy.  Now, we're all "Democrats".


by handsomegent on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 12:52:37 PM EST

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 3)

Do you not understand, that the more 'independents and republicans' who vote in our primaries, the more of those groups will be voting for us in the general election?

I'm also sure you are quite aware that Republicans voted for Hillary in large numbers in several of her best states, such as KY, IN, and WV... fully 1/4 of Clinton's voters in some primaries didn't plan on voting for her in the Fall!


by Lawyerish on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 2)

Those of us who participate at MyDD.com under honest pretenses are pretty much all Democrats, yes.

As to your "point" about Obama supporters, well, I'll see your Obamacans and raise you an Operation Chaos.

Senator Clinton's margin for victory in Indiana was voters who, when asked if they would vote for McCain or Clinton in the general, said they'd vote for McCain after voting for Clinton in the primary.

Proof of Operation Chaos?  Your call, but I find it persuasive.

Every Republican and Independent I know who voted for Obama in the primaries intended (and mostly still intend) to vote for him in the general.  Not a single solitary Republican I know who voted for Hillary in the primaries had any interest whatsoever in voting for her in the general.

You wanna go there?  Handsomegent, if you really wanna dance, let's dance.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

Senator Clinton's margin for victory in Indiana was voters who, when asked if they would vote for McCain or Clinton in the general, said they'd vote for McCain after voting for Clinton in the primary.

Well, I understand that being of one particular persuasion can color your perspective on the Indiana vote. However, could you for once consider that Hillary's support was actually genuinely for her. That being said, her supporters had already established the trend of voting for McCain. This even was at the time that a majority of core Democrats preferred her. So, thus, it could have very well been actually stauchly democratic voters making this assessment and decision. It often good to think outside the box from time to time. Of course, no pun intended.


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:25:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 1)

11% of her voters said they'd vote for McCain over HER in the general election.

HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

That was from exit polling done the same day as they voted there!


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:29:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

Listen, Reaper0Bot0, at that time, barring the guilty concessions of the media in giving Hillary more positive news coverage after the damage had already been done (quite possibly due to their unfettered, FOXNEWS(1992-2004) mangling of her, everyone knew that it was over at that time as far as what was being portrayed on the news, blogs, and just about every other media circuit one can think of. In short, it is quite possible that the eleven percent could have represented a microcosm of her staunchest supporters nationally. Others may have opted to not answer or just did not have the other two options readily available to respond: That is, vote third party or stay at home. Any true democratic voter--like myself--can not really vote McCain considering what a waste those eight years on been in waiting to give the Republican party a big pay back. Unfortunately, for me, Obama is not that candidate.  


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 1)

No you don't get it:

Hillary's voters said the would vote for McCain over HILLARY.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 05:09:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

Well, the only other baraometer of truth that can be used is the actual general election polls from both candidates (Hillary and Obama) versus McCain. All that Obama Hype is a bunch of fluff.


by Check077 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

11% of her voters said they'd vote for McCain over HER in the general election.

HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?

I noticed that you emphasized the HER in your response to sound more emphatic. However, there is a single flaw in your perspective. You may have overlooked the idea that Hillary's staunchest supporters which should be even higher than 11% in a given state primary considering the higher than usual turnout at that time. This allows me to conclude that the republicans who voted both for Clinton and Obama served their strategy to near perfection by continuing to taint the democratic polls. I guess the main issue I have with your premise is the mere fact that you believe that Hillary's republican support carries all of the spice or deceit (an anti-Obama vote) and none of the sweet or truth (an pro-Clinton vote). Actually, in this case, the republican voters (moderate republicans) that have voted for Obama may prove bigger, better enablers of a McCain Presidency than Clinton republican supporters (the staunchiest of republicans--who'll probably never vote democrat)--if I would follow your assessments. It seems that McCain has indeed an opening to resolidy his base more than Obama can at this point. I feel so sorry for your candidate. I wish you the very best in your campaign to win the presidency. It just will probably be without my help.

More evidence of this trend is seen in Obama's awesome, god-like fundraising capabilities, yeah, I threw in some words that would make you feel more at ease with my response (bold-faced them too). However, with all of that dough, Obama still only leads McCain in the single digits at best in recent polls.

Personally, at this point, I can stand to look at neither Obama nor McCain while each gives speeches and campaigns. I'm waiting for what happens at the convention or what happens on election day.


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 06:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

Revision:(Corrections Made)

Senator Clinton's margin for victory in Indiana was voters who, when asked if they would vote for McCain or Clinton in the general, said they'd vote for McCain after voting for Clinton in the primary.

Well, I understand that being of one particular persuasion can color your perspective on the Indiana vote. However, could you for once consider that Hillary's support was actually genuinely for her? That being said, her supporters had already established the trend of stating that they would be voting for McCain (however true that may be). This even was at the time that a majority of core Democrats preferred Hillary over Obama. So, thus, it could have very well been actually staunchly democratic voters--not covert republican voters--making this assessment and decision. Heck, given the rather centrist or conservative nature of Indiana, it's rather possible that many centrist democrats --either out of disdain for the vituperative treatment of Hillary (an establish & loyal democratic figure) or due to Obama's political newness (a virtual unknown at the time), liberal leanings, and relatively light foreign policy stances -- could have opted for the more established, independent/maverick idea of McCain. Note that I stated idea of McCain. It's often good to think outside the box from time to time. Of course, no pun intended.


by Check077 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 04:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (none / 0)

I'm talking about before Operation Charos-the Obama lovers love to bring that up ignoring his pre-Iowa lovefest from the conservative media.


by handsomegent on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why should they give (none / 0)

he has plenty of money from his other donors, and they're still not sure they like him.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:04:41 PM EST

Re: Why should they give (2.00 / 1)

I believe I addressed that in the diary, Catfish.  If they don't want to, they absolutely do not have to.

I hope they do, however.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope Obama's naive worshippers get a clue (1.50 / 4)

the title of this diary is mean-spirited and plain unnecessary.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope Obama's (2.00 / 1)

BUNDLERS you fool!  I wrote it very deliberately.

ARE YOU A BUNDLER?  If not, THEN BUGGER THE HELL OFF.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If they don't want to give to Obama. (2.00 / 1)

I wish they'd at least start giving to the DNC.


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:29:16 PM EST

Re: If they don't want to give to Obama. (2.00 / 1)

I agree.  The problem is that some of those folks appear to hate the DNC just as much as Obama.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If they don't want to give to Obama. (none / 0)

Guess you're right.

They hate the Democratic Party, basically.


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dixiecrats 2.0 (2.00 / 2)

But their numbers are much smaller this time.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dixiecrats 2.0 (2.00 / 1)

Or maybe "Angrycrats" ?

(Some of them will probably end up with Lieberman. Just watch.)


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If they don't want to give to Obama. (2.00 / 1)

That's the difference with the Repubs, tho.

They hate McCain, but they're still giving to the party, which is why the RNC is raising tons of money compared to McCain.

They don't like McCain, but they'd rather have a seat at the table with someone they don't like than no seat at the table at all.

Be nice if the Democrats ever played to win like that.


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:39:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The DNC screwed up royally (2.00 / 1)

don't reward bad behavior.

Uncertainty in the primary with MI/FL created a situation that no matter who won, the other side would think the winner cheated. You don't see it because you supported Obama.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:35:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The DNC screwed up royally (2.00 / 5)

What uncertainty?  The rules were clear and agreed to by both sides.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The DNC screwed up royally (2.00 / 4)

Say what?

The bad actors were the state parties/legislatures in Michigan and Florida.  You'd see that, but you were in Hillary's camp at the time, so deep apparently that you not only missed it then but you miss it now.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama should opt back in to public finance (none / 0)

It's absurd we're being asked to fund his campaign so he can outspend his opponent in a year in which everything is going the Dem's way.

It's also absurd because many editorial boards chose Obama over Hillary precisely because Obama led them to believe he would use public financing, which turned out to be a lie. Hillary chose not to lie and look where it got her.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:38:04 PM EST

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a Clue (2.00 / 2)

you don't know why they're holding back, a better guess is they want to see something before they pony up, and they haven't yet seen it.  It's not smart to blame those who don't jump on the Barack train, it's smarter to find out why, not pretend you already know, and then do something to win them over. Insulting them isn't the way, nor is punishing them.  

Why not ask them what they're waiting for, and listen to the answers?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:38:51 PM EST

Frankly, they're used to being coddled. (1.75 / 4)

But tensions were apparently high enough that the Obama campaign felt the need to address them. In a separate interview, a major Clinton fundraiser said a small number of her compatriots continue to feel upset about their diminished status.

"For better or worse, the Clinton people are used to being courted, and the Obama folks have just a different philosophy," said the donor. "Some of the Clinton people have gotten demanding. Some of them wanted titles, and I think that is totally inappropriate. Why should any Clinton person get to jump ahead of any Obama folks? They want jobs, they want recognition, they want to be in the paper. They want to be considered for an ambassadorship. It is all about ego."

The one-time Clinton backer added: "I happen to think the Obama folks are right. Politicians should not have to spend so much time pandering to the bundlers or donors. But if you are used to that kind of treatment, one might misinterpret that as not caring about their needs."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/09 /obama-donors-told-fundrai_n_111780.html

(I hate to bring up a sore subject, but I could see how the Lincoln Bedroom thing started with people like this in the Clintons' corner.)


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frankly, they're used to being coddled. (2.00 / 1)

No one has the 'right' position, there are only opinions, and I'd take the one that brings most on board for a common purpose.  It's insulting them to say they need to be courted, and then that you're not going to court them.  First you insult them and then use your insult to make them wrong and insult them again?  This kind of thing goes on in bad marriages right before divorce lawyers get involved, it does not belong in politics.  People need to get over themselves and think of the people who need government, for survival.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good advice (2.00 / 1)

You should take it and get over yourself.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You need a nap (1.00 / 1)

What is your problem.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good advice (none / 0)

I'm a nobody, who cares what I get over. It's the leaders who are supposed to have the big picture, and not be petty and sore.  We can chew on each other, but there are bigger steaks out there, and much higher stakes than you picking on me. We're both nobodies.


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, you were talking about party leaders? (none / 0)

Because this made it sound like you were talking about the diarist:

First you insult them and then use your insult to make them wrong and insult them again?


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frankly, they're used to being coddled. (none / 0)

Well, as I read it, it was some Clinton supporters talking about other Clinton supporters, so I'm not sure where you comment comes from.


by Bush Bites on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Classy. (1.50 / 4)

Stay away from our wallets with your smarmy attitude.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:42:41 PM EST

Re: Classy. (2.00 / 3)

How many redudant comments ya gonna make, Catfish?

I am not touching your wallet.  Are you a bundler?  If not, this diary wasn't even about you anyway.

How many times will you ignore that, by the way?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:52:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you want class (2.00 / 3)

maybe you should write another diary about nappy hair.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 01:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Like the New Yorker cover (1.00 / 1)

trying to make a point.

Maybe you should overreach a little more trying to make everyone out to be a racist.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Racist (2.00 / 1)

who said "nappy hair" was racist?  I thought we were talking about classy.  Perhaps you doth protest too much.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy. (none / 0)

This from the same person whining wherever they can about Obama supporters not paying off Clinton's debt. Oh, hypocrisy.


by upstate girl on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy. (2.00 / 1)

Nobody expects you to vote or donate to anyone but John McCain.  Stop repeatedly throwing yourself in front of the train.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama is soaking up DNC money (none / 0)

BTD explains it well:

Right now Obama has 72 million dollars on hand. The DNC does not seem to have much money, though it did raise 22 million in June and now has 20 million in cash on hand, so Obama will need to at least keep up this fundraising pace (more likely exceed it) as the McCain camp and the RNC combined have around 100 million dollars on hand compared to 90 million for Obama/DNC. In terms of the general election spending, which does not formally commence until after the Conventions, McCain has opted into the public finance system which provides him 85 million dollars for the 2 months after the Convention (on top of the RNC spending). For opting out of public finance to make sense for Obama, he'll need to do better than 52 million as he is soaking up money that could have gone to the DNC.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:09:47 PM EST

Re: Obama is soaking up DNC money (2.00 / 2)

The DNC has been flat broke for the past four years.  If you were a Democrat you'd know that.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is soaking up DNC money (2.00 / 3)

Okay.....June through November is six months.  $52 million a month for six months is, what, $312 million?  Is McCain going to have raised $228 million in the same period (that's 312 less 84)?

The DNC raised nearly as much as the RNC last month.  They're fucked.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is soaking up DNC money (2.00 / 4)

Catfish2 is always my first stop for the most inane spin on any political topic possible. Thanks for never disappointing.


by upstate girl on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only Armando (2.00 / 2)

could turn "the DNC raised 22 million in June" into "OH NOES OBAMA IS TAKING DNC MONEY".  That guy is dumb as a post.


by JJE on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 02:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hope Hillary's (Errant) Bundlers Get a C